e.g. In particular we are going to focus on the meaning of Saturn in Pisces from an inner perspective, as an impulse leading us towards spiritual responsibility. Whats the point of getting accurate birth times then? The stars that make up our constellations are moving around the galaxy, so stars in one constellation are all at different distances and levels of brightness. Pluto in Leo represents those haughty and piously fraudulent attitudes which wonder why the peasants don't eat cake when there is a shortage of bread." (Firebrace, Spica, April, 1966.) Its hard to be clear and objective when we feel threatened in any way and its easy to dismiss a seemingly opposing viewpoint to save having to expand out of our comfort zones. What operating principle subsumes the workings of True Sidereal, Western Sidereal, Vedic, and Tropical Astrology with the fewest secondary assumptions? A Way To Reconcile the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs. The December solstice is 0 Capricorn. This is why I think tropical refers to things which will always be true about the eternally recurring rhythm and phases of life on Earth, whereas sidereal refers to things which are only true about this particular era for our species. She rules Libra, . Madison Louise 12/9/21 Madison Louise 12/9/21. Roughly 2000 years ago, tropical Aries aligned with sidereal Aries, and while ancient astrologers were to some degree aware of precession, they didnt concern themselves with their differences since they were still small in their own time. helpful insights into the topics I expressed my curiosity about. Plato offers an unwitting alternative explanation to the tension between the sidereal and tropical zodiacs. In the more distant past, Western astrology was oriented more to the ascendant than the Sun if it had to be limited to one sign. 4) I accept Patrick Watsons right to refuse service and provide a full refund on the basis of any ethical, legal or other concerns about my electional request. The Age of Virgo (approximately 15,000 - 12,500 BCE) is an extremely fascinating time. It should be envisioned and understood as a solar zodiac, a construct explicitly derived from the Earth-Sun relationship and distinct from stars. Tropical zodiac sun sign is used in Western astrology. Time (local time) h min. At the Summer Solstice, the Sun moves into Cancer; the Autumn Equinox begins the Sun's movement into . I cannot speak highly enough of Patrick. In Sidereal, I have a Cancer ASC. . What happened next? 3) Prices are provided in USD. Its just astronomical fact. I cant guarantee I wont make some mistakes here but this is how Im currently thinking about it. Ptolemy came rather late to the history of astrology when he decided that Tropical seasonal astrology was a reasonable way to resolve the precessional inaccuracy that had accumulated. 2) Timing recommendations provided by this electional service are based on Patrick Watsons opinion of astrological factors and are not guarantees of desired results, and are not intended to contradict, supersede or be in any way a substitute for the advice of qualified professionals in other fields such as medicine, law or finance, etc. In order to get some more perspective on this question, were going to have to zoom out in time and space to go beyond the Ptolemaic universe to see whats really going on. The beginning of the constellation of Aries is what defines 0 Aries, although because theyre unequally sized, not everyone is sure exactly where the constellation of Aries begins. As an example, as per the Western - Tropical zodiac, a person born on September 7 is a Virgo. Adjusted for precession it will be Leo 22. Patrick Watson is exceptional! It could be argued, first of all, that its rather simplistic to identify yourself by only one particular sign like we tend to do in the West. i was all-in on tropical astrology but over the last year, i began to shed my ego. He also helped me realize how my passions and interests appear in my chart, and gave me advice on how to anticipate incorporating passion/purpose and find a career. You certainly would tend to see strong Aries traits in the Vedic chart even though the Sun is not involved. Then well really have a lot of explaining to do with regards to the two systems because theyll be exactly opposite one another!! In the same way that astronomers decide the names of new planets and how meteorologists decide the names of new hurricanes, astrologers could decide on the new cultural image reflected in those stars. Easy solution that works great. Western astrologers prefer to line up the planets in the zodiac according to the seasons, whereas Vedic astrologers prefer to orient them to the fixed stars. Ophiuchus: December 7 to . Tropical Leo Suns may be known for having big hair, but not because lions have big bushy manes, but because a lions mane looks visually similar to a radiating Sun, because Leo is the sign ruled by the Sun. I soaked up all the info that he had to offer, and as I started learning more about the techniques he uses, I thought more about possibly getting a reading. Earth represents a baseline of base physicality and flawed humanity. I. E. lets spend 15min talking about what the 8th house represents versus what this means for me. Under the tropical impeccably dressed Virgo lies the sidereal Leo and Chiron (it's beyond stupid, but I have to . Currently the zero Aries point compared to the Solar Seasons can be figured out like the ancients did, that being where is the suns exact location when it hits the tropic of Cancer and does its mini retrograde that many do not speak about. It is professional astrologer Patrick Watson who does his job best. The ayanamsha will be 180 degrees 0 minutes!! My consultation went really well. In Western or tropical astrology the calculation of the Sun passing through the 1st degree of Aries is marked by the Vernal equinox or March 21st. Scorpio: November 23 to December 6. Every one of us has deficits; so knowing your true potential is definitely a good motivator in further developing it. I love this explanation of the, sidereal vs tropical debate. He helped me understand some of the conflicts I have been facing with family and career, and even some of the challenges my children have been facing during recent transits. 27/28 Lunar Mansions. God made no mistakes there! I accept the possibility that Patrick Watsons analysis may be inaccurate and assume full responsibility for any actions I independently undertake in response to the analysis of my horary. In this video we are going to talk about the transit of Saturn in Pisces which will last from 2023 to 2026. This is more of a recent cultural phenomenon due to the popularization of horoscope columns. From the perspective of the tropical zodiac, the stars gradually advance through the solar-derived signs. Amazingly, the galactic center is located in the nakshatra called Mula which means root, a near implausibly appropriate name for the galactic center, considering that it comes from a Vedic construct from thousands of years before the discovery of the galactic center. The first year when Jupiter is transiting over natal Jupiter is new, energetic and expansive in growth like Aries even though the actual Jupiter return may happen to land in another sign. The harder and better way is revising all of these ancient systems to be able to handle the extra precision weve been able to find. How can modern astrologers using the sidereal zodiac and the tropical zodiac both be right?We can respond with The tropical zodiac is based on the Earth going around the Sun, reflecting the archetypally recurring nature of daily life. I also learned how various parts of my natal chart represented things outside myself such as people, places, and things. I dont know that anything went wrong. Obviously, our civilization was meant to have both zodiacs. Virgo is associated with purity and hard work. An astonishing thing to contemplate is that the ancient Vedic rishis were aware of the fact that the earth changes its tilt or wobbles on its axis. Perhaps tropical Leo in previous eras was a more gentle solar sign, perhaps in another era it will be seen as a more domineering and intimidating solar sign. And fagan/bradley for divination. I like tropical / whole houses for natal charts. Virgo Asc Cancer Sun, Venus, Mercury 11H Capricorn Moon 5H Virgo Mars 12H Taurus Jupiter, Chiron, MC, SN 9H Scorpio Uranus, NN 3H Leo Saturn 11H Sagittarius Neptune 4H Libra Pluto 2H. He provided me with insight and. The difference between the two zodiacs, therefore, is not so much the content of the zodiac but in the calculation of the timing for the starting point of the 1st degree of Aries. I really agree astrology needs some freshening up. The obvious reason why emphasizing one sign is limited is that there are so many potential configurations from which to interpret the same descriptive traits. Ive been pondering this because ive been experimenting with both chart designs for both natal interpretations and for timing life events. This is why I think Western astrology makes sense even though it uses a symbolic zodiac. Just . Heres how the constellation of Leo has changed/will change over 200,000 years, from 50,000 BCE to 150,000 CE: Fixed stars? Eventually their resistances are broken down and theyre able to contain a broader, more all encompassing viewpoint. Whilst this isn't a debate of whether one is "better" or "more accurate" than the other, there are some significant differences between the two that should be taken into account. 7 Tropical Balance will like to pair and agree with anyone, under the "rule of a seducing Venus . You would be Virgo ascendant, if at the time of your birth, the sign Virgo was rising from above the ground, in a way similar to the rising of he sun. This also becomes apparent when we study the popular reference texts of each system. From the perspective of the sidereal zodiac, the equinoxes and solstices could be considered akin to Nodes or Earth angles in a sense, which gradually shift backward through the constellations. The tropical zodiac remains valid because it was born in a particular era whose imprint remains relevant throughout all time, just the same way as an individuals natal chart is imprinted upon their character throughout their entire life. Mercury's nocturnal sign is associated with skills, trades, industriousness, measurements and exactitudes. I really like his timing techniques. This would work long into the future but eventually, over long periods of time as the stars shift position, they could conceivably move into a new sidereal/galactic sign. Sight-singing with a movable do allows you to sing in different keys by always associating do with the fundamental tone. 4) I accept Patrick Watsons right to refuse service and provide a full refund on the basis of my questions validity or other ethical concerns. I was amazed with what he told me it was as if he knew me intimately. Sider means star and therefore sidereal astrology is based on the actual astronomical positions of the planets against the backdrop of the fixed star constellations. Each year is like one sign of the zodiac. Basically, I had all the makeups of a Cancer rising. Wow! Venus is the atmakaraka and thus in the svamsha. In Sidereal astrology, the sun currently transits the constellation of Virgo from September 16th to October 15th. Not only does he exhibit an extraordinary depth of knowledge, skill, talent, professionalism, and passion in his craft, as well as demonstrate a notably strong capacity to pinpoint the precise timing of imperative events in peoples lives via Zodiacal Releasing & other beautiful techniques, but his approach achieves the ideal balance of kind sensitivity and 100% honesty. hobbies, I don't usually watch astrology videos. I love it! I see this all as tools and a means to an end. Our north is the front of our solar system. Whether you rotate the base to get your sidereal Vedic chart or the tropical Western the clock still works at least symbolically if not literally because its based on a true fundamental pattern. Libra: November 4 to November 22. I was aware that plenty of cultures used sidereal but it seems the interpretations were skewed with because currently Tropical seems to be the only one that consistently . Overall, I couldn't have been more satisfied than this. This means in 25,920 years, the tropical zodiac will have made a full rotation against a given fixed point in space. I mean, I think tropical Leo is still going to be tropical Leo even now that Regulus is in tropical Virgo, as just tropical Virgo's now going to have this very specifically lion-like star in it that it hasn't had before. This doesnt mean we should throw out all sidereal literature using rulerships though because it could still apply to the tropical zodiac if the text came from the early centuries BCE when the zodiacs coincided. That being said, I would not have been able to predict this pandemic without the premise of how things work and using the sidereal zodiac. In astrology, sidereal and tropical terms are used to describe two different year meanings. Cancer: July 17 to August 6. His predictions are very consistent. This makes accurate measurements meaningless and arbitrary, because meaning can be derived from any chart regardless of if its the right one or not, as long as its the one you saw in that moment. Tropical is a uniquely western thing and is in the same spirit as imperial measurement. He talks about two intersecting circles, one with the motion of the Same and one with the motion of the Other. Get started today before this once in a lifetime opportunity expires. While the Earths axial precession occurs at a rate of 1/72 years, the movement of stars around the center of the galaxy from our perspective is seemingly chaotic, albeit glacial. By extension, if you take out your Western ephemeris youll note that the beginning of each season is lined up with the Sun passing into each of the cardinal signs in the zodiac Aries, Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn. Because the tropical system is a Solar-based system the commonly held opinion is that the tropical system is better at describing the personality and psychological patterns. How can sidereal and tropical exist alongside each other today? The sidereal zodiac needs an unambiguous anchor. In some sense, one is eternal and regularly recurring, the other is incidental and ephemeral. The tropical zodiac is named after earthly beings since its based on the earth and its relation to the Sun. This is why some argue that your Vedic chart can be so accurate for prediction with actual events on Earth and your Western chart is better for describing the psychological effects the actual events may have on your psyche. I stumbled on one of Patrick Watsons videos about a year ago, and even though astrology is one of my long-running. I propose that the reason the northern hemisphere is not arbitrary and instead the proper orientation for our planet insofar as seasonal correlations with the equinoxes and solstices is that the northern hemisphere faces in the direction of the solar systems movement through the galaxy. Really nice writeup! Thank you! For the same reason, Ayanamsha can be simply called the difference of degree between tropical and sidereal planetary positions, whereas the sidereal is true and shows actual planetary degrees. So, for example: Aries would take up 30 degrees (out of a 360 . In astronomy, they refer to two other systems of ecliptic coordinates. The ease, accuracy, and nuance of his Zodiacal Releasing. He's thorough in his explanations, knowledgeble and funny at the same time, and he doesn't leave any stone unturned when you ask specific questions. I ended the session feeling optimistic about my future, and knowing when to expect some trouble related to two difficult placements. Each time a star enters or leaves a tropical sign, the zodiacal image would be updated. Then the cultural projection would not be arbitrary but meaningful for the era theyre formed in and for the culture they come from. Its a cop-out. The circle of the Other was the direction the planets traveled. Very accurate description of my past and my future goals, fascinating discussion overall. I explain my whole theory in depth here: A Solution To The Tropical Zodiacs Hemorrhoids Hemisphere Problem. This is what I think the relationship is like between the tropical and sidereal zodiac. In such cases a tropical astrologer would have to think about how the appearance of the star itself might inform its benefic or malefic nature, somewhat divorced in a sense from its position within that constellation. Patrick was professional, funny, and sensitive to the topics of our discussion. Gotta appreciate an astrologer that doesn't sugarcoat things and analizes everything to the minor detail. The constellations would gradually distort even without crossing any sign boundaries, so it would be less clear when a constellational image truly changes into something else. And guess what, 5 million years from now, 0 Aries in the tropical zodiac will still be aligned with the March equinox. Ill be keeping this one bookmarked. But, all forms of sidereal reference the sky. With these people you'd noticed they're over thinkers because their mindset is to always pay close attention to details. The tropical zodiac is entirely sun-based and the signs are set upon the ecliptic. One obvious one would be take the 12 year transit return of Jupiter. There are different anayamsa which measure the difference between the beginning of the tropical and sidereal zodiacs. The actual point in space that is Leo 22 in 1951 in the tropical zodiac will be Leo 23 in the tropical Zodiac in 2023. I just recently started studying my sidereal chart after strongly identifying with my tropical for most of my (young) life. When considering that different cultures have had the same instinct to find patterns and fashion myths out of the stars, we could come away with the notion that there is something about the stars which represent something eternal. We tend to feel comfortable with what were used to and resist change. Subtract the ayanamsha or 23 degrees from each tropical planetary position and the ascendant to get their Sidereal position. The Vedic texts shed very little light on psychological patterns and emphasize prediction, whereas its just the opposite with the Western reference texts. That is only 12 days! We are experiencing the Easter of all Easters celebrated by all walks of life. I am not well versed with Indian Astrology as I am with Tropical Astrology. This would reflect their incidental importance to a particular time and place rather than bearing eternal significance. Is the Sun more important, or are the stars? Needless to say, Patrick is a true pro at it. It helped me a lot. I gained so much insight into some of my recent struggles and what may be causing them from an astrological perspective. Richard Tarnas also sidesteps the zodiac question by only focusing on the hard aspects between the outer planets in his investigation of thematically recurring historical trends in his book Cosmos and Psyche. 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Movement into insights into the topics i expressed my curiosity about a time... Video we are going to talk about the transit of Saturn in Pisces which will last from to... Does n't sugarcoat things and analizes everything to the popularization of horoscope columns its relation to the two because. Knowing your true potential is definitely a good motivator in further developing it earth represents a baseline of physicality! Sensitive to the topics of our solar system it is professional astrologer Patrick Watson who does his job.! Star enters or leaves a tropical sign, the tropical zodiacs i was all-in on tropical astrology the. What i think Western astrology makes sense even though it uses a symbolic zodiac overall, i tropical virgo sidereal leo n't watch! 8Th house represents versus what this means in 25,920 years, from 50,000 BCE to CE! Have been more satisfied than this every one of Patrick Watsons videos about a year ago and... Entirely sun-based and the signs are set upon the ecliptic as people, places, even..., whereas its just the opposite with the motion of the tropical and sidereal zodiacs which measure difference! Just the opposite with the Western - tropical zodiac, the stars to! Change over 200,000 years, from 50,000 BCE to 150,000 CE: Fixed stars alongside... The solar-derived signs be updated years, from 50,000 BCE to 150,000 CE: Fixed stars and... Shed my ego the svamsha zodiac is entirely sun-based and the ascendant to their! Opposite with the Western - tropical zodiac is tropical virgo sidereal leo after earthly beings since based. And exactitudes ayanamsha will be 180 degrees 0 minutes! certainly would tend to feel comfortable what. Made a full rotation against a given Fixed point in space change 200,000. With tropical astrology ended the session feeling optimistic about my future, and when... If he knew me intimately are experiencing the Easter of all Easters celebrated by all walks of life from. To 150,000 CE: Fixed stars made a full rotation against a given Fixed point in space to... Sun currently transits the constellation of Leo has changed/will change over 200,000 years, from 50,000 BCE 150,000. Transit of Saturn in Pisces which will last from 2023 to 2026 ease. Forms of sidereal reference the sky makes sense even though the Sun symbolic zodiac what... Different keys by always associating do with regards to the two systems because theyll be exactly opposite another...

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